Advanced marketing techniques using the amazing NameSqueeze process
In this transcript, youll be a fly on the wall at one of our legendary Coaching Club sessions and discover advanced NameSqueeze techniques to make your sales soar!
JM: Hello, I want to welcome everybody to this months Cyberwave Coaching Club Call. Lets review the tests weve completed and talk to people on the call who may have done the same type of test.
We discussed an extension so to speak of the NameSqueeze process. The NameSqueeze process is our process we literally force people to opt-in to prior to even seeing our sales letter. Its important to have them make a small commitment and it gets them in a form filling mood. When we started this, we were simply collecting information and sending the follow-up. And when customers bought, we would take them off of the prospect list and put them on a buyers list. Because were collecting this information on the front end, we have a unique opportunity to take that information and use it in our sales letter and follow-ups.
Specifically, were asking, in almost every case, for names so we can personalize the follow-up email. Yet collecting information in a form also gives us the ability to personalize the salutation, the headlines, and various aspects of our sales process. This alone increases response rates, in some cases, 10, 20, even 30 percent. Just the simple act of using the prospects name in the sales letter increases conversion. Using the prospects personal information and feeding it back to them increases response and creates a stronger process that makes you more money. The personalization, creates a stronger bond between marketer and prospect.
John Reese and I talked about this. John brought up the idea of a dynamic sales letter. And yeah, John agreed, personalization and first name and maybe a city are probably the most important part of a personalization process. Hes really expanded it even further and has created kind of a dynamic sales letter. In addition to asking for the prospects name, the prospects email, maybe their city, he asks them a few questions about themselves. If were talking about marketing or advertising, ask them the obvious questions, how long have you been doing it, how much experience do you have, do they currently test and track their ads. Over the last 30 days, we had our programmer completely redevelop our entire network. So its now virtually impossible to get into any of our sites without giving your name and email address. And we are now starting the personalization process throughout the entire network where were not just asking for a name and email. Were asking specific questions about you so we can feed it back to them. And what we do is add dynamic personalization. Johns product was something to do with baby showers or wedding showers. He was asking questions about how long before you have the wedding shower, whos the wedding shower for, whats the brides name. Then he feeds it all back to them thru a dynamic process. With this method, he turned the sales letter from a complete dog, to a winner. From a fifth or a tenth of a percent conversion rate into over one percent conversion rate just using the personalization process. Which, to me, is a very unique and wonderful way to save a project.
From our tests we learned our response rates are up about 30 percent. Our visitor values are up about 30 percent. We found our Online Marketing Letter site achieved about a 60 percent increase in response using the personalization. So Im wondering, anyone else out there testing personalization on any of your sites.
JU: This is Jim Utzinger, I can give you a case study. After the discussion last time about the NameSqueeze process we created one for our nutritional product. I was redoing the sales content to create a more expanded letter and a backend upsell. If you went through NameSqueeze, you could put your first name, the second page of the sales letter would have Dear Jonathan on it. But the particular product had about five core areas of interest based on the Ask Campaign type of strategy. Because the original NameSqueeze page where you put in your name and your email address and then what was your number one question about, we gave them the ability to put a lot of information in, and about 60 percent of the time people would fill in an answer.
Based on those answers, then we went back and created more content. So by creating a broader dynamic content, we were able to ask them now the name, the email address, then in radio buttons, five of those salient points, based on the feedback plus the questionnaire or the ask button to put in their question. We noticed probably 60, 65 percent of the people were still filling out the box for the question. We noticed almost 99 percent of the people clicked one of the five buttons and there was no pre-selected button. So they could easily have gone to the NameSqueeze and never click a button. But almost 99 percent clicked one of those five buttons.
Then we created a dynamic sales letter with a new headline based on one of those five points that you clicked on. So if they came in and they were interested in high blood pressure, which would be one of the five points, the headline would refer to that, it would be geared towards the content of high blood pressure. What really struck me is by adding the extra radio buttons at the NameSqueeze page, it gave us more of a voting booth process so now over time we can monitor it. And focus in the content a little bit more strategically to build both our Google AdWord campaigns and our keyword phrase campaigns to more optimize the situation. So these are all generic topics, but the one product. By driving them into one NameSqueeze page based on all the different AdWords, continues to allow them to focus in and then create the page dynamically.
So instead of having multiple pages from multiple keywords, were dealing more of a generic multifunction NameSqueeze page. Then the sales letter is being dynamically created for that specific keyword. So were forcing down a particular path that we want them to go to so that they realize that they have the solution based on their primary keyword selection.
JM: Go ahead and just give us the short version of how this is working.
JU: Were generating traffic with Google AdWords and we come right to this main page and we track everybody that comes into this. So lets say you were interested in angina and you came off a keyword angina. We tell you we understand your problem and all you do is sign up and well give you the free reports and the preview for the newsletter. But if you notice where it says, whats your main symptom concern, which radio button that applies, it forces you into the most important.
JM: Youre driving most of this traffic in through pay-per-clicks, predominantly Google?
JU: It allows us to really match up everything.
JM: Let me give everyone a good solid example. If youre looking for information on angina, heart disease or a problem you might have and you enter it into a search engine, theres hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people willing to help you with this problem. All of them are buying clicks, all of them are trying to optimize their site. And so typically what we found is, if you send someone an email, theres a whole lot less distraction. If theyre interested in solving this problem or achieving this goal, bang, they go ahead and they click through and theres nothing else around them to keep them from opting in.
However, in Google, weve seen in almost every case, its hard to beat the 30 percent opt-in rate. What is your click-through rate on this page?
JU: As high as 10 percent on a good day. It probably has averaged about 7%. So for us, we have a little bit more control and we get a better buyer. Were dealing a higher qualified customer so we need a customer who has the financial wherewithal to buy our products.
So we can get by at the lower click-through rate, but using the Name Squeeze process, we get a better quality customer. And by going through the process, we gather a lot of very useful marketing research. When we test, the personalization makes a big difference, too. Next, were going to do some additional tweaking and some high end stuff on traffic equalizer pages that I think youll find interesting.
JM: Well, you and me, too [laughs]. And a whole bunch of others. In fact, Id like to save that topic for the next call. Thank you. Boy, Jim, that was outstanding and backed up exactly what I said and youre a great student and a great marketer.
JU: Just to let you know that 95 percent, at least, opt-in to the free newsletter if we give them the chance. So its a great way to build your newsletter.
JM: Yeah, thats good. Im interested to hear what the NameSqueeze converted, traffic equalizer pages produce.
JU: Yeah, I think it should be better because were going to deal in very, very specific keywords and Ive been working two weeks on doing some very personalized keywords. And it will actually say, on the NameSqueeze page, lets say you have high blood pressure, angina, and high cholesterol, we can actually say in the NameSqueeze traffic equalizer page is, questions about and have the keyword phrases automatically put in there and then you duplicate the same keyword in the discussion. Kind of what weve talked about in the past. So it looks like the page has actually been dynamically created just for them.
JM: Im going to give a resource. This is not the kind of thing that your typical webmaster can do. Its a programming function and we have a guy who we work with; hes been on Coaching Club calls before. His name is Joel Holtzman and his email address is joel@problemsolvingcode.com.
JM: Next, lets talk to a gentleman who lives in Vienna Giancarlo Capuccio and who when we met, was looking for topics and ideas. You got the idea for the http://www.slotmachinesmastery.com/getsmm.php book a while back. Tell us a little bit about how that came to be. You bought a few different books and you just decided to create your own?
GC: I used to buy casino magazines because I like to read them, but then I saw ads and some guy was selling booklets on how to win the slot machines. I bought several, read everything and I created one myself. And it just took me like a week, you know. Like to make everything.
JM: It took you about a week [laughs]. Can we ask, just for everybodys edification, how old you are?
GC: Im 20.
JM: Youre 20? [laughs].
GC: Yes.
JM: Congratulations.
GC: Thanks!
JM: Something about people who are young and not knowing what is possible is pretty amazing to us. We have a bunch of people who are in their 20s in the Coaching Club and all of them do quite well and were always impressed and delighted to see those kinds of results. Is this a ClickBank product?
GC: I think Im like number 2 on the casinos right now.
JM: Youre number 2 in the casino category.
JM: And who wrote the sales letter, because this sales letter is a very good sales letter.
GC: I did it.
JM: [laughs] Well, I think its a very good job and the fact that youre getting conversions is better than anything else. Youre using a NameSqueeze page which is going into a personalized sales letter.
JM: We have a couple of recommendations for your NameSqueeze page. Youre using a real thin table and one of the problems with using a thin table it makes your paragraphs appear longer, and it creates a big block of text. This about a 500 pixel-wide table, Giancarlo. I recommend taking this to a 600 - 650 pixel wide table. I dont think you need a header graphic or anything in there. I think your headline is good, you might want to change that or at least test something different. Do not drop another coin into the slot machine until you discover the secrets that will change your life forever and keep you winning at the slots. I think your bullets are outstanding and theres a couple of questions I want to ask you. You had a different version of this page where you put the opt-in form on the bottom and then just recently, you added another opt-in form to the top. You actually have two opt-in forms here. This is weird; what is your opt-in rate off of Google?
GC: Well, normally the landing page is around maybe 31 percent.
JM: When were on a pay-per-click search engine or someone who doesnt allow pop-ups, like Google AdWords, after our opt-in form, we put a link that says click here to go to the website without giving us your email address. You arent doing that. And what youre thinking is, is that if theres nothing else to do except for opt-in, that youre going to increase that opt-in rate. Is that correct, Giancarlo?
GC: Yes.
JM: Jim Utzinger, just a quick question. I didnt notice on that page, do you have a link to go straight to the site without giving your information?
JU: Right.
JM: You do.
JU: Yeah.
JM: Have you tested taking that off and forcing them into the process?
JU: It runs about the same.
JM: Oh, okay, so according to that kind of number of that kind of test, Giancarlo should probably try it an it probably shouldnt change much.
JU: Youd have to track it on the sales letter.
JM: Of course, hes getting a third of the people to opt-in so thats pretty substantial.
JU: I would say for his kind of market, people are seeking opportunity, its kind of a greed factor. If they really have a niche, they really want to learn about it, theyll really want to get it.
JM: I agree. Glenn Livingston, are you on right now?
GL: Yes, right here, Jonathan.
JM: Glenn, thank you for joining us today. Now youre also achieving about a 25 percent opt-in rate off of your Google AdWords landing page?
GL: About 22 actually.
JM: One of the things that we talk about is giving them kind of a secondary path. But then again, if theyre really hot and hungry for the information, theyre going to give you their email, and hopefully their credit card number eventually. On this NameSqueeze page, anybody have any comments?
GL: I guess theres highlighting text marks. I just found it a little clumped, but I know its a NameSqueeze page so its no big deal.
JM: Yeah, and its getting a pretty good opt-in rate, too. Im always hesitant to change something thats converting that well [laughs].
GL: Yeah, thats working, yeah.
JM: But on the other hand, it can get him to 40 percent?
GL: Yeah, just little things. I dont mean to be nitpicky, but
JM: No, be nitpicky because sometimes those little things work. You remember the story of the one word in the headline change that, you know, changed everything and turned an unprofitable promotion into a profitable one.
GL: By signing up, down at the bottom there, the user is consenting. By signing up for this publication, I give express direct consent to you. I mean, I dont know what it means but it sounds threatening.
GC: [laughs]
JM: It does sound a little threatening.
GL: I understand no one would get my email address from you and its written in a reverse text rather than say we respect your email privacy and will not share any of this information.
JM: Right, I agree with you 100 percent. It should say something to that extent and probably have a link to the privacy policy. Even though the privacy policy is below that, I believe
GL: Well, if you have the privacy policy with all the legalese in it, thats fine. Then just have the personal one say, we do not share your email address with anyone.
JM: Or you could even say we respect your email privacy
GL: Yeah.
JM:
or we respect your
GL: We respect your privacy, we dont share your email ever.
JM: Exactly. And also, I think you need that same one up at the top. What happened when you added this second opt-in form up at the top? How much did the conversion increase?
GC: Well, it went from like 22 percent to 31 percent. Yeah, but I also changed the headline.
JM: Oh okay. Well, it all requires testing. What we do, we call it the referential chain. It involves using not only the same style of writing, but also the keywords the person clicks on. Generally, if someone enters a keyword in a search engine or a keyword phrase, that keyword phrase should be in the Google AdWord. It should be on the landing page and it should then be on the sales letter. I would recommend you take this same headline on NameSqueeze and do an A/B split test on the sales letter. Use the headline that youre using now and then use a warning headline. So youd keep everything the same on the NameSqueeze and then youd do an A/B test on the sales letter. One would have the existing headline and the next one would be, Warning, Jonathan
do not drop another coin in the slot machine until you discover the secrets that will change your life forever. What that does is keep the headline the same, but it adds a very important keyword and that is my name or the prospects name, which has been shown to increase readership. So that would probably be your next test. So if youre at Giancarlos site, go ahead and you guys can just fill that in. And well go ahead and comment.
RB: Jonathan, I have a comment.
JM: Oh, Mr. Rick Butts, go ahead.
RB: Yes, I do. I lived in Vegas for two years. I speak there all the time and so this is going to come from left field, but I think it might be helpful. The customer is somebody who spends a significant amount of time sitting in a Las Vegas casino with the sight, sound, smell, feel of what its like to be in a casino and theyre staring at a slot machine. And I think whereas in most cases we want things to remain fairly plain so they focus on the sales letter aspect. But I think in this case he could get away with, and ought to at least try testing a site thats more graphically appealing, with some slot sounds.
JM: Ding, ding, ding, ding [laughs].
RB: Yeah, I mean, when the site first loads up, you know, maybe have a slot machine sound, the sound of coins hitting that metal tray. Maybe use a border or, you know, the page background of money. And make the site look a little bit glitzier.
JM: Well, you know, you bring up an interesting point, which is, if you look at how to sell a product like this, to this particular niche, there are really two styles. Theres the style of making it look like a sales letter and the style of making it almost appear to be like a casino site.
SG: This is Sadan. There is the counterpoint where if this is a secret you discovered and hes just a guy making things on his own and hes not the big corporation, keeping it simple may have its own attraction.
JM: I agree. And, of course, the numbers bear out that this is a very successful book. And so it would need to be tested. Rick, I want to clarify something. You would like to see an A/B test on both NameSqueeze and the sales letter, right? So that theres kind of a different graphical approach versus a more text benefited approach.
RB: Yes, I mean, the first thing the headline ought to do is say, this is for me. And so why not make that approach with the look and feel of the NameSqueeze page.
JM: Yeah.
RB: And it could be done easily with some, a little bit of sound, audio and, you know, a border using coins or something like that. Just think through site design a little bit and like you said, somebody that goes and plays slots may be someone who also hits gambling sites on the web. And if it looks a little bit more like that, thats your customer.
I personally would feel more comfortable landing on a site like that as a gambler. Im not a gambler but I, you know, from living in Las Vegas, they do a lot to enhance the total sensory experience. And its cocktails and its sound and its energy and thats my thought.
JM: Alex Mandossian has tested non-permission versus permission or instant on versus button click audio. And in most cases, we never want to be intrusive, its best to do a permission-based audio. For example, when someone goes to a website, we dont want to just start talking to them. We want to incentivize them through a benefit or something else. But it needs to be tested
JM: The only place you can do almost without having a problem with regards to instant on audio is a NameSqueeze page. Because weve just driven it here and all were not going have to a lot of verbiage. You could have ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And then you could say, thanks for visiting Insider Slot Secrets. You know, complete the form and well give you our best secrets. Enjoy yourself and have fun. Its something short, sweet and to the point, but actually drives home what were trying to get them to do in this step, which is fill out the form.
RB: Yeah, the verbiage could literally be, if youll just drop your name and email address into the slot, we guarantee youre going to win a free report.
JM: Rick, you are a smart guy! If youll just drop your name and email into the little slot
RB: We guarantee youll win.
JM: You could almost turn the opt-in form into a slot machine. When were at the NameSqueeze all we want them to do is fill out the form. We really arent asking for any sort of action or attention or time or anything until they get to that sales letter. Its all just parts of the process. And the reason we get that click first is because we want to get them on the site. And the reason we get that name is because if their phone rings or the dog barks or the wife or husband comes home or something happens, or the house catches on fire, we still have their name and email addresses to follow-up, right? One thing about this headline that is fascinating to me is this: its not really very well written. And I say that kindly.
Its one of those headlines full of keywords so you get through it and its almost like a modified offer headline. Were betting half a million dollars in cash that I can show you, but the way you roll it out is, professional slot player is betting you, Jonathan Mizel, and 99 gamblers, 500,000 in cash that he can show you all how to make at least $1,000 a day playing slot machines. And then turning this headline here into a subhead. Id like to see that as an A/B test because I think following the same headlines on the next page would probably improve the response.
JM: This could definitely have audio and the best place is under the oath. You could have an audio button below that and use that typical wording that says: Click here to discover the amazing insider slot secret story. And then when they click on it, you dont need to tell them the story, you just need to say if you want to play slots and you want to win, then heres some good news. I will show you and I freely instruct you on my secrets. And you, too, can start making over 30,000 a month playing the slot machines. I like the Gary Halbert approach, he once had a great letter, it started, Denver man swears under oath
he can show you how to
or Florida man or Hawaii man swears under oath. The whole idea was this swearing under oath thing where there is almost a confession before God. [Laughs] For some reason, it increases readability and adds credibility. I dont know if youd want to use your own voice, but I would go ahead and try it. If youre selling primarily to the US Market, Ive found that usually a womans voice is best. But if its going to be you under oath, it should be a mans voice or it should be your voice. I also noticed some font inconstancies. Now this is just like cell padding. I know for a fact the easier something is to read, the more people will read it. And one of the things that we always like to do is use a font that has a high degree of readability. We dont like to use different fonts. We use headlines of Tahoma, and Verdana through our copy. We use Tahoma for our headlines and then well sometimes vary the copy between Verdana, Arial or something like that. But consistency plays a big part. Theres the other side of the coin as Sadan made the comment where if its not quite so sophisticated, maybe its a little better.
SG: Yes.
JM: You know where its like, hey, Im just a guy just like you, but I have this wonderful secret. And that really cant be discounted. Ever since I met someone a few years ago who had the worst website in the world and was only making $100,000 a month, I shut my mouth. Ive got a suggestion for you, Giancarlo. Youve got something like 15 order buttons or order links on the sales letter?
GC: Yeah.
JM: I would put a link tracker on each one of those and see whether or not one beats out the other. Where we found, and I think I was talking to Michael Fortin about this awhile back, is that if you have say 15 order links in the sales letter, theres probably one or two or three that are click almost, you know, more often than any others. And by including an order link too early, you can almost upset your customer by tipping your hand, right, because its obvious this is a sales letter instead of an informational piece and could almost scare the client.
And if no one is clicking on a link, then get rid of it. Find out which ones people use, eliminate the rest. In most cases, we use just two or three other links per sales letter. One, where I want them to order near the guarantee, one at the end, and then occasionally one in the PS.
SG: And, the other suggestion is that, you are offering $300,000 value a year if they work every year, every day, if they gamble every day, lets say its $100,000 or $50,000 value but you are offering it for $67 and that is not that strong. But, again, you are making the sales. Its up to you whether you want to elaborate on that or not. The thing I suggest you may consider is, $29 may be too low or you may, make that drop from $67, $29 into steps. First of all, youre offering $1,000 a day and offering for $7 and in the last couple, last paragraph with the sales letter, you are dropping it to below $30 without giving the reason why. I checked your competitors, youre number six on the casino and second in the slot is $37.77, and offering of only 40 percent commission.
JM: Okay, so of all your sales only about 20 percent are coming from affiliates.
GC: Yeah.
SG: So you may want to drop the price from $67 to $47 and when they decide not to take it, theres a technique Jonathan can teach you. Remember this time clock offer, Jonathan? Im suggesting to an exit pop-up for the following reasons: first, hes making a very strong offer, up to $1,000 earning on a slot machine. And offering it for only $67, then drops it immediately in the next paragraph to $30. Maybe there is some room to test it at a higher price.
JM: Yeah, and I think the next step is definitely some price testing. So, Giancarlo, Im going to walk you through that process and, Sadan, you let me know if I do it right. First, they opt in to the form and then they hit the sales letter.
SG: Right.
JM: It shows them the $67 price, but if they act now they can save $30 and they can get it for $37.
SG: Or $47.
JM: Or $47, and then if they buy, they get the product. If they dont buy, theres an exit pop-up that says, Stop, Wait.
SG: Right.
JM: You know, if you order in the next 10 minutes, and theres a little countdown clock, if you order in the next 10 minutes
SG: And also explain that this is a randomly generated offer.
JM: Right.
JM: What that does is brings the price down. So its a downsell. Its an abandoner downsell technique.
JM: You may just want to do a straight price test on $10, $20, $30 and $40 and even $50. Or, you know, $17, $27, something like that, $19.95. Recently Glenn Livingston found a way to really increase his profits and the size of his list by reducing the price of his book. What exactly happened? You reduced the price from $20 to $10?
GL: Yeah, I was at my $200 profit a month on Guinea Pig Secrets and I tried the $10 price in an A/B split and that went to $1,000.
JM: Interesting.
GL: I solicit feedback and it was because people can visit the pet store and easily pick up a hard copy book for 10 bucks about guinea pigs, so why would they buy the ebook for 20 bucks. Asking for feedback helps with virtually no refunds.
JM: Virtually no refunds? So it cuts down your refunds to nothing and it also gives you big backend lists. Well, Giancarlos got something else going on, which may be people dont understand but Im going to go ahead and reveal it. Giancarlos building a list of gamblers. And if you are a casino operator, an online casino operator, you are feeling the pinch right now.
Google is going to stop accepting ads for casinos and online gambling places. I think the reason they did it is because, the Treasury Department and the FBI told Google it would be in their best interest [laughs]. Theres an article in, I think it was Slate or one of the online magazines recently about how the Justice Department has started kind of covertly threatening U.S. businesses that support online gambling, because online gambling is illegal.
Now, Giancarlo is neither from the U.S. and he doesnt live there so he doesnt have to contend with John Ashcroft and his boys, but because John Ashcroft is out there threatening everybody, that means that theres now a huge reduction in the places for casinos to advertise. Which means that people who have a list and sell access to gambling prospects will be extremely valuable. And I dont know if anyone looked at some of the offers that were running around Super Bowl time, but we had sports books and casinos emailing us and asking us to promote them. They were offering $225.00 for a new client and it didnt matter how much the guy bet. I think if the guy bet at least $100, the casino would turn around and give me, as the affiliate, $225 because they wanted to get acquisitions. So the point is, if a lower price does not hurt your visitor value and youre making the same amount of money, but selling two, three, four times the amount of books, it may behoove you to try that simply so that you can create a list of qualified prospects. So if you wrote a book on a gambling technique, Roulette, Casino, Blackjack, and used that as a red herring, even if you were only breaking even on the product, youd be able to build a huge list to market to the casinos. And if you were getting hundreds or thousands of visitors a day and building your list super fast, you might even be able to sell that business for a couple of million or more to a casino as a customer acquisition tool. Instead of your customer being the guy who buys the $20 book, you now have a group of 10,000 online casinos who need customers and youre going to create a system for them to get prospects and visitors to their website.
SG: Jonathan, the key is to test very carefully because lowering it too low may create the perception that the product is worthless.
JM: Well, thats the other problem. If you were to go ahead and lower it to the $10 range, youd probably need to change some of your numbers around because its not realistic to think that you could buy for $10 a book that could make you $30,000 a month. That defies logic and so you would lose people, I think. Is that what youre talking about, Sadan?
SG: Yes.
JM: You know, another technique to test is a free trial offer, give me your card number now, and we wont bill you for 10 or 20 or 30 days. Then they have the opportunity to play. If you dont like it, just let us know and we wont even charge your card.
SG: Another consideration for a lower price point, is your affiliates. If it is too low, you will not get too many affiliates working for him, but hes getting only 20 percent so that may not be a major issue.
JM: I think your big upside is with your affiliates. Go to money or employment in ClickBank and Paid Surveys Online is the number one product right now. Im just going to guess, go out on a limb. Eighty-percent of their business comes in from affiliates, 80 percent. Not 20 percent, not 30 percent. The only people buying AdWords for the top ClickBank products are the affiliates. Also there are a bunch of affiliates running e-mail campaigns for this product right now. So keep in mind your affiliates are the force that can drive you to the six-figure category. Of course, this list-building method will work in virtually any industry, and if you have a strong back-end, a hot list of responsive prospects is what its all about!
JM: Unless there are any more questions, I think thats pretty much it. Talk to you guys later.
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